HH should be taken out of old maps

  • Banilla

    Changed the title of the thread from “TAKE HH OUT OF OLD MAPS” to “HH should be taken out of old maps”.
  • Adding hard hitters to maps that never had them from the start at this point in the game is a bad move. East Eir and West Yvel are big maps with a LOT of mobs, turning up to a 3rd of those into hard hitters really slows down mob gathering and exp gain. The implementation is technically better than what Outspark/DNC did, but it's still a slap in the face to every player that still grinds/aoes in those maps. They could have at least boosted mob exp to compensate for the increased gather time, difficulty, and forced smaller mobs, but I would be much happier if they just removed them.


    How the HH seem to work, the dev selected 1 pre-existing mob type to become a HH(just like the lower level maps that already had them), and they do their normal damage now and then but occasionally do a static 40(east eir) or 60(west yvel???) damage that, if the shouts are to be believed, ignore dodge. I'm assuming Holy Avengers with AG can tank them, but they would still be forced to drop to a lower level map to compensate for the HH's damage.

    Wardomic - 111 Warrior

    Warshot - 96 Ranger

    Rowan - 106 Holy Avenger

    Sigma - 96 Priest

    Dawn - 66 Mage

  • I made suggestions similar to what they have implemented in the current update. Though depending on " when " and " how " the ideas are implemented changes the values a lot for the players' experience.


    Not all suggestions are timeless

    Specially not once that are 4 to 5 to 6 months old... There are some nice implementations, but hard hitters in " old maps " is kind of late.


    Apparently " reading disability " seems to be a common theme even with those whose main language seems to be English. That and a lack of " rational level of thinking " and " deducing / logical / reasoning " skills, no offense even in real life this is quite unavoidable...


    To put some clarity to it as simplistic as I can put it as a repeated warning that probably I have stated endless times by now throughout the forums if anyone cared to read carefully who makes changes, I do sound blunt but I mean it as a friendly reminder


    Nerfing anything now is not a good thing to do

    Explanation: Veteran players have gone through most of it the easy way then and new players or players who still are trying to catch up will have a harder time. For class balancing, choose a benchmark class that is the strongest, then buff the other classes to match it as equals.


    Increase the game difficulty is oke, but only past a certain point

    Explanation: This means to target the difficulty specifically at the new maps, not before then to make players who new or are still trying catchup struggle even harder then previous players who already are far ahead.


    When making changes or new implementations do the following process

    • How does it affect players at x level
    • How does it affect new players or players trying to catchup
    • How does it negatively affect x class
    • How does it positively affect x class
    • If it is negative, what is the compromise if need be
    • if its positive, question if its balanced
    • How does it affect a general player, ahead or behind, rich or poor
    • How does it affect the world economy
    • How does it affect leveling pace at x level


    Lastly and most Importantly, Strike a balance with what the players desire

    Game balance and players desires don't have to clash with each other. They can easily coexist and even aid each other. I questioned the balance team quite heavily on whether or not they are qualified. And sorry if I do sound insulting, its 2020 afterall... Either not having qualifications as a game dev or job experience as one sure that's realistic. But if that's not the case? a huge lack in gaming experience overall in the balance team. And I say this without intention to insult I say it to be " truthful ".


    It makes it worse when changes blindly get accepted

    from those unqualified on the balance team

  • I have no words honestly...I mean I do but they are not kind ones. This little update is simply disappointing like majority of the things that have happened thus far on this journey I dreamed of. Tissue paper plugging the holes will not keep it from sinking...thats all I can say.

    If you can read this....you're too close

    LittleDylan 131 Paladin -Retired-

    Dylanangel 71 Knight -Retired-

    GM Daenerys -Retired-

  • I personally don't mind HH. It adds a bit of complexity to the game so it's not just blindly & mindlessly aoe'ing all mobs map after map. You actually have to strategize and pay attention to how you aoe now (gasp!). Time to put those stuns back on the hotkey bar? I actually think RANGED hh should make a return too in some maps to counter the kite aoe meta (but mob speed being raised might have already addressed this actually). Hard hitters naturally slow map gathering and progression instead of the random artificial slows like nerfing meridians or silkion drops or high chances of useless mp pets/mounts. Things will be harder now for everyone (not necessarily a bad thing) and it also give healers a better role late game since aoe'ing will be dangerous again and having their heals as insurance will be desired. I haven't had a chance to go through all the maps that have hh now, but the only thing I'd say to watch out for from a balance perspective is how many hh there are. You don't want a map with 50% of the mobs being hh. That's a bit overkill and no fun.

  • I've not tested the HH at lower maps yet, but I think like what Rage mentioned, it is too late to implement HH in lower maps now because bulk of player base have now passed the old maps.

    What this means: New players/ players who have not passed these maps are now playing with a handicap that older players didn't have to deal with.

    Suggestion would be to cap HH at low maps like what is in traditional maps like rudwork. and adjust the exp up a little (because we used to be able to mob full map). if now the players are only able to aoe lesser mobs per map due to HH the exp should be adjusted upwards IMO to balance it.

    More testing needed here. Does the HH scale with map i.e. they are an add on to the existing map defence (e.g. old map 2+298, HH = +12 damage kind) or they hit a fixed number regardless (e.g. hit 40 damage regardless)? if it is the former it is more acceptable.

    Do agree with Pure that it makes mob stun skills that fish out HH useful now lol. (shield crash etc)

    -=tsu=- - Lv 14X Saint Guardian

    “Do. Or do not. There is no try.” ~ Yoda

    Edited once, last by Tsukiyacw ().

  • My perspective is this: love the game. But these days I get maybe an hour to two hours to play. This is a break down of the time I play: half hour before I have to go to work in the morning at 5-5:30am my time. Then perhaps an hour to a half hour sometime after work. Then about a half hour to kill tiger boss.


    On days off I can do a couple hours or so maybe sometimes more on a day off. I enjoy those small spurts. For me, leveling in any way near effective boils down to solo aoe. I can’t regularly rely on any healer, and rightfully so, because who the hell is gonna sit around waiting for me to log on half hours at a time to do 6-8 runs through a map and then I log off. So for me, it’s bosses and small spurts of aoe in whatever highest map My defense will allow and slowly upgrading gears to go higher.


    Now I do not think HH shouldn’t exist. But it’s every map? However, my usual spots right now are bangle and amorica. I know the hit rates on new HH mobs are bugged, but, 1 third of the mobs on both those maps hitting me for 40 damage as they ignore defense is unmanageable. That’s too many mobs to manage through stuns, and even with hit rate corrected I’d probably die pretty easy if enough get through the dodge of my SM.


    Old hard hitters you could at least get the defense to get through them if you needed/wanted to. These things, being that they ignore the defense stat are just not something you can do alone. But maybe that’s what’s intended. Needing a healer and or party for aoe or no aoe. But with how low exp is, aoe is about it unless you have the patience to single kill till blood comes out of your ears for a couple percent.


    So, with my limited time, leveling is already slow, and this update will make grinding non-existent for me. There will be no point to grind on a map. I’ll be logging on to do some bosses then log out until I get sick of that and go.


    Of course I don’t mean that as some kind of threat. Turn it back or I walk, hahaha. I just mean, from my perspective and how I have to play with my limited time, one of my favorite things about the game is basically wiped with this update. The rest of the update, the whole thing, is awesome otherwise.


    But it is what it is, I guess.

  • For templar-odalisque 40 damage hh is too much. Even 20 might be excessive. Its a transition zone without a lot of traffic. Id argue that it was alright as it was before.

    Thats really all I'm going to say for now.

  • I don't mind hard hitters because they motivate me and perhaps others who play tank class to get better gears, accessories, pets, etc to be able to handle them. However the recently implemented fixed damage on some maps became the game breaker for me. All the hard works i put into building my warlord to be able to fully tank arobec and getting ready for the much anticipated new Shenzen map is wasted because regardless how much i invested on defense I will take the same damages from HH as someone who has almost 50 less def point than my character. Therefore I think the implementation of fix damages hard hitter is less friendly toward tanks. I'm looking forward to returning to the game after the fix damage is reversed.

  • I gonna share my opinion about the HHs in old maps, i don't mind if u put HH in new maps. Level 133 Warlord with def dino, have no 15% def mount. Did a test aoeing Harding forest with the HHs. Before the update i was getting 0.67% full map with no HHs. The problem is with the ammount of HHs, I get 0.43% now and that is with a 100% exp book. That is 33% exp decrease because can't aoe HHs with my def. U don't implement something without readjusting the exp in consequence of the changes. U should have increased the exp of the Templar and Sky map set if u wanted to put HHs there

    .

  • This reminds me of how SOS reborn killed the game, all the investments in +6 gears, def skill pets, def pearls are no longer as big of a hype. Fighter class takes a big hit on this one is the way I see it.


    Overall, I'm disappointed that this change was not announced and kept hidden from players. I strongly believe we should have a say in it as a community. I respect everyone's opinion and I would like to suggest a poll: keep fixed damage or do away with it.


    We can go into the specifics later, but let's start with the poll

  • Well, the new HH type just suck. They do increase difficulty which I’m ok with with, nothing wrong with difficulty, but for me personally due to time constraints, I can’t see myself continuing with it as is with fixed damage rate HH set that high and ignoring defense values of the characters. It makes it too much to play solo as all aoe becomes suicide aoe with or without healer coupled with low and slow as hell experience making single killing completely unviable way to play and just logging on for four bosses and an occasional world boss would become mundane as hell after a bit.